Let me ask you a question-. Sean McDowell : Let me ask you this question, David, because I think it's related to what you were saying.
Sean McDowell : Can you just tell us about your decision and thinking on that, and why it's important to you? David Bennett : I think Scott, theologically, it's very important to me. This is why. You cannot Your identity has nothing to do with the body you currently inhabit. You are just a spirit.
David Bennett : You know? You're just a spirit and You'll get a resurrected body, but this body doesn't matter. It's deleted, it's going to be destroyed and thrown on the waste tip. David Bennett : Now, I've obviously spent with N. Wright so I've been a little bit colored in a way when I think about anthropology, but just this basic point that N.
David Bennett : Like, this body that I'm in will be raised, and that doesn't mean that I'm going to be gay in the eschaton, or same-sex-attracted in the eschaton in the future, you know, when there's a resurrection, but Again, it's through the weakness of this mortal frame that I will then put on immortality. David Bennett : So somehow in the doctrine of glorification, what the weakness is about They're going to have some significance and weight that we lift them up faithfully, that we submitted them to Jesus.
Here is the thing One of the very profound, personal weaknesses I have. David Bennett : And yet, it's also linked to the very good creation in the beginning, where we were all created for companionship and intimacy. Somehow, you can't just It's not like being an alcoholic, or being an adulterer, or something like that. David Bennett : This is something even more profound, because it links in with the original creation, male and female. This whole idea of the Madre Dei, and so I think there will be a special glory that is given to those who live a life faithfully in a body that is same-sex-attracted, but don't seek to live that out.
David Bennett : I think God will reward that with David Bennett : And I see this in the generations. My mom and dad see gay as being very linked to being sexually active, whereas my generation, we see it simply as related to one's sexual orientation, not to do that.
So I think for me, I only want to refer to it as relating to my sexual orientation. David Bennett : And it's a way of me boasting in my weakness, and I think it's important, as well, to say that subjectivity matters, that this embodiment is different and matters in the way that we understand personhood and salvation redemption as Christians. David Bennett : So there's a lot more to say that's in the book, but that's how I would probably to start to say You know, I'm not referring to an ultimate identity, I'm referring to an aspect of my identity that will one day be transformed.
And that I await that redemption faithfully in celibacy. Scott Rae : Yeah, David, I think that's a very helpful distinction and I think for our listeners, you just got a taste of the kind of theological depth and insight that is all over the book. So we If you want a little bit more of the way our guest here, David, has theologically reasoned, we would highly recommend the book to you. Scott Rae : David, let me switch gears a little bit. I'm not sure you say it straight out in the book, but you Scott Rae : Yeah, I'm wondering just if you'd be a little clearer about that, if you actually believe that's true, and if so-.
Scott Rae : How do you think that affects single adults, whether they're same-sex-attracted or not? David Bennett : That's really helpful. I think that it's a huge issue.
David Bennett : And so the Church naturally has that kind of It's kind of adopted the culture's dictum that romantic love is the way to flourish and if you don't have it you're a miserable person. You're kind of done with.
You know, you're to be discarded. David Bennett : And I actually discovered in the Gospel really good news, that my romantic status had absolutely nothing to do with my value as a person in the eyes of God, and that was hugely liberating for me having come from the secular world where I really was defined by my romantic status.
David Bennett : And so, I think at the base of the book, I'm trying to talk about the modification of desire that sits at the base of the Church's idolatry of romantic love, that we sell romantic love in our society every day to try to sell products and a kind of lifestyle of comforts, and ease and success.
David Bennett : When actually, the call of the cross is a very different trajectory [inaudible ] to deny ourselves. So the way that that happens I think is with the Holy Spirit, tasting the goodness of the Lord and that then allows us to give up our idols. David Bennett : I think we need to fall in love with God again, as the church, and that will deliver us from the idolatry of Eros or Aphrodite and bring us back to Jesus and to Yahweh.
So I think, yeah, we've got to do that, we've got to allow the prophets to speak and to break the idols, and that will create a space where, I think, gay people who truly want to follow Jesus will feel far more at home. David Bennett : I constantly felt strange as a celibate person in many of the churches that I attended, because they were Evangelical and I agreed with a lot of their convictions on the Scripture and doctrine.
You have to David Bennett : There was no infrastructure for single people in the church to flourish. There were no semi-monastic communities or missional communities where single people could form alternative family These things, I think need to be addressed to create an apologetic that's not just rationally or biblically coherent and faithful, but also practically viable for David Bennett : I think, also, for a lot of single women that I know.
There's so many single women. David Bennett : This is something that we have to do as the Church. We have to shift on this. There is no other option but to embrace singleness and celibacy, or the affirming argument will win on the pastoral level-.
Sean McDowell : I think the balance you're saying between being biblically faithful but just practically viable is really the solution. Sean McDowell : So let me ask you this last question, then we got to wrap up. You say the Church needs a new apologetic, a way of thought and life that neither demonizes nor elevates the same-sex desires facing many faithful Christians. Sean McDowell : What do you mean by this? What is that apologetic that the Church needs?
David Bennett : I think we need a positive moral vision. I want to be that radical disciple again. I want to live Jesus' way. David Bennett : That God's love is so incredible that the revelation of God's love in Jesus Christ on the cross as poured out in the Holy Spirit to us, revealed to us by the Holy Spirit, that love is enough.
It is satisfying, it's enough. The grace that's been given to us is sufficient to be able to give up anything. David Bennett : That we don't have a right to live out what we want in our bodies. That our bodies have been bought for a price, and that is actually, paradoxically freedom. Freedom is not being able to do whatever I want to do. David Bennett : And when people can see that actually happen, I think it's wildly attractive to the world. I think people are attracted to that like they were attracted to Jesus, and if we can live deep lives of discipleship, our Evangelism will reach people.
It won't be a clanging symbol anymore, it will really touch people, and I think I saw that in all the characters I encountered along my journey. David Bennett : I saw Jesus in them because they were set apart, they were holy. I want to bring back that It's so awesome to be holy. It's really fantastic. Like, the joy I have is someone who's set apart for Jesus. Like, this is better than anything else I've found. David Bennett : Like the pearl of great price, the Solomonic revelation that the only thing that is new under the sun is knowing God in Jesus, like that's it.
For me, that's the apologetic. It comes back to how Jesus lived, who He is, His identity, and how that informs ours. David Bennett : My testimony is that I haven't found a greater joy than living that way. Sean McDowell : Amen. To love him. To walk with him. To be in relationship with him. No, it was about God positioning himself before my eyes, so that I could finally see that he is everything he says he is—and worthy to be trusted.
In October , God let his light shine into the dark corners of my life. And when he did, I saw my sin with full clarity. It was not as glorious as I once thought nor was it as good as it had promised to be. It was everything God said it was: deadly Rom In the Scriptures, I knew there existed much condemnation for all that I loved and lived Rom.
But in the same Bible where I found condemnation, I also found the good news that God loved and died for people like me so that I could live forever John They were for him to have and to be glorified with. Shortly after that pivotal night, I was doing the painful work of breaking up with my girlfriend.
Her tears were too loud to listen to without regret. She knew how much I loved her, how childish my face got when she was around. To leave her, us, our love, made no sense apart from the divine doing of God. She was both my woman and my idol. She was the eye Jesus said to gouge out and the right hand he commanded me to cut off Matt.
Though it was as painful as the extreme act of removing a part of the body, it was better for me to lose her than to lose my soul. A new identity was to come after I hung up. And 10 years later, he is still keeping this girl godly.
Jackie Hill Perry is a writer, poet, and hip-hop artist whose latest album, Crescendo , released in May. Have something to say about this topic? Let us know here. Have something to add about this? See something we missed? Share your feedback here. So, if you can, please consider donating. Even if you can't support us monetarily, please consider sharing articles with friends, families, colleagues - it all helps!
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